Inquiry is fatal to certainty. - Will Durant.
Last week, most of the TV channels were full of news relating to some babas (aka gurus, swamis etc). I’m amazed looking at the popularity these people have managed to possess. More astonishing is the fact that they run big business empires under the cover of spirituality. We need to save God from these people literally.!!!! Hahaha
Hindus in general are less informed of their religion than followers of other religions. However I’m against these sects centred on Human-Worship. Such man-centric worship removes all traces of sanity in men and makes them scapegoats to all kinds of rubbish. People must enquire adequately before making their final move to faith. Though I call myself a Hindu and believer and have a set of beliefs, values and also interested mental speculation I’m usually a positivist(someone who emphasizes observable facts and excludes metaphysical speculation about origins or ultimate causes) when it comes to others and concerns to society based issues. Because ultimately we have no option but to accommodate all people and work out reasonable solutions to all. We usually go on thinking that we’re right and can argue no end for it. Unless we strongly desire solution we can never truly win the battle of perceptions.
I urge those who are followers of some sects not to take this personally and read this dispassionately an essay in humour. They wrongly tend to believe that they’re grounded on solid rock, while the fact is that it is thin ice and cracks the moment one begins to question. After they are truly convinced of the validity of their path through reason, they can go ahead. It stands to reason whether reason is strong enough. But the fire of faith should never lack the air of logic. Else the virtue of faith is based on ignorance and not knowledge and can cease to be functional when ignorance is shattered.
Here is an idea on how a typical discussion with followers of any of these sects can be:
Hindu and Follower of these sects(based on my real-time experiences with my friends)
Follower: You people are naïve. You don’t understand the true import of religion.
Hindu: Let us leave this topic. Live and let live. These are matters of faith.
Follower: Yes, but what is the use of following these meaningless traditions.
Hindu: We don’t consider them meaningless. They have meaning.
Follower: It is said in Gita that God has no form. But you make a mockery of what is being said.
Hindu: Where in Gita was this said?
Follower: I don’t know exactly. But our Teacher said.
Hindu: You mean to say that you’ve personally not read Gita and still comment?
Follower: We needn’t read it. Our Teacher said so. We needn’t go any further!
Hindu: No, but let us say that this Teacher is wrong. What then?
Follower: No, it can’t be.
Hindu: Then how is your position any different from us. You appear to more blindly believe in a human being. We atleast don’t do that.
Follower: Our Teacher has so many followers even from abroad. How is it possible without substance?
Hindu: That has nothing to do with the discussion. Having followers from abroad is not necessarily a sign of enlightenment. Majority is not always right.
Follower: OK. Tell me this! Gita says that God has no form, and still you perform idol-worship.
Hindu: There are different schools of philosophies to this. Only one particular school Advaitam says that God is without form. Another school of Dvaitam
Follower: Are you sure about this?
Hindu: Indeed, didn’t you Teacher say anything about this?
Follower: Our Teacher says what is important to us. He doesn’t teach us what is unnecessary.
Hindu: I agree that a teacher must do that sometimes. But do you find it appropriate that with your limited understanding you can criticize anything?
Follower: See, what I mean to say is that despite your superior knowledge you’re using it in wasteful manner.
Hindu: I don’t think so. We feel that we follow has a very specific meaning.
Follower: You follow so many customs. We don’t follow them. We go for only true essence.
Hindu: No, I’m not convinced about that either.
Follower: Why not? We don’t perform so many wasteful activities at every festival!
Hindu: What is banished from front door, actually re-appears from backdoor.
Follower: How? We don’t have idol worship.
Hindu: You use pictures of your Teacher to the point of boredom! Disagree.
Follower: We don’t go to temples.
Hindu: You go to some arshramas etc etc…You do go somewhere na?
Follower: We don’t have show-off type festivals. Why are some days more important than others?
Hindu: Why is the birthday of your Teacher special? So to speak your show-off is more glitzy.
Follower: What I’m trying to say is that in this humdrum of customs and traditions you’re forgetting about true spirituality. You’re following religion but not spirituality
Hindu: I don’t differentiate much between both. You need both philosophy and customs for spiritual development.
Follower: Our form of meditation is very popular. Even foreigners come to learn it.
Hindu: That is a small aspect of Hinduism. Your teacher has not invented that. He has merely used that and marketed that well!
Follower: What do mean by marketing? We are non-profit organization.
Hindu: Most of the terrorist groups are also non-profit. That you don’t work for profit doesn’t automatically mean that you’re great.
Follower: But we aren’t Hindu, we’re just true and natural path.
Hindu: Exact replica of what we call Sanatana dharma. Not your invention or discovery.
Follower: But we’re enjoying a lot, unlike others. We’re not suffering due to blessings from Teacher.
Hindu: How you receive your life is your problem. Man is the measure of all. If you feel that it is working well for you, well and good. The same way unless it comes into my way or creates public nuisance I’m also ok with those who torture their bodies, who inhale drugs and claim higher enlightenment. You have to decide what it does to you.
Follower: You simply argue. Many people became followers of my Teacher almost instantly.
Hindu: That has nothing to do with me. I think, therefore I’m. If they don’t wish to think its their problem.
Follower: You think so much that you’ll never reach truth.
Hindu: Indeed, but my position is infinitely better than yours. All your life you have bet on a single play of dice. You’ve staked all your beliefs and values. You’ve thus cancelled your chances of true enlightenment if by chance at the end of the road you find your Teacher is fake. I’ll however have the satisfaction of not falling prey to such nuisance.
Follower: You claim too much.
Hindu: Refute my arguments. I’m open for change unlike you. Convince me.
Follower: Its is fortune of previous birth to be able to understand the true import of what our teacher says. You can’t understand him thus.
Hindu: You people are naïve. You don’t understand the true import of religion.
Follower: hmmmm! Well!!!! Let us leave this topic. Live and let live. These are matters of faith.
==========
PS: I've no problem at all with atheists and people of other faiths. Because most of them tend to agree that we have difference of opinion and go about their way. Their world and my world never intersect and I'm saved the trouble of confronting them. Ours beliefs never overlap. It is humour of psychology and history that we have harshest problem with those with whom we differ only slightly. Only similars can be compared profitably.
I offer a deal to these people. We promise not to say the truth about them, if they don't spread the lies about us. :-)
==========
PS: I've no problem at all with atheists and people of other faiths. Because most of them tend to agree that we have difference of opinion and go about their way. Their world and my world never intersect and I'm saved the trouble of confronting them. Ours beliefs never overlap. It is humour of psychology and history that we have harshest problem with those with whom we differ only slightly. Only similars can be compared profitably.
I offer a deal to these people. We promise not to say the truth about them, if they don't spread the lies about us. :-)
Yes, its true if people follow some system blindly its no of use. infact because of these gurus, a genuine system method, practice needs to face criticism by others. generally, people come from various religious backgrounds, and they leave the religous background because they want something diferent from what they have experienced in those religions. they pray to god for fifteen years, twenty years but they dont found any spirtual progress. Spirtuality is acceptance of reality. It atually teaches us to percieve reality and accept reality.. like when we see the sun, we have to accept the sun because we do not know what it should be like, we have no opinion about it. we accept the sun because we come with an open mind, our mother says this is the sun and we accept the sun. we have no preconceived notions. Guru is a guide.but its true that its better to follow no system if that system doesnt give or doesnt prove to be good for you. For spirtuality,
ReplyDeleteWhen you look, look with the idea of what you want, and when you find someone, see whether
he can deliver the goods..wait until this is proved , and if it is not proved, then ofcourse there's no use of sticking to tht system..you need to change and search again begins.
Sathiya:
ReplyDeletethey pray to god for fifteen years, twenty years but they dont found any spirtual progress
Well, I think they shift because they want 'other' benefits. One who is sincere makes an attempt to study problems and relevant scriptures. From what I've made of these neo-converts, they are basically clueless about anything spiritual besides their blind faith in a human.
Spirtuality is acceptance of reality.
Yes and these days that 'reality' is being exposed by media(pun intended).:-)
On a more serious note, the Sun that you see may not appear the same to an ant. A creature beneath earth's surface doesn't even know of the existence of it. Reality is based on perception. Human beings can't see all from universal perspective (however intelligent)...And when I see that these men claim some supernatural powers and people fall prey to it...I feel sad.
we accept the sun because we come with an open mind, our mother says this is the sun and we accept the sun.
Yes and if one's mentality continues to be like that where is growth. From my experience, I feel that my parents are ignorant of certain things. I must find out myself.
When you look, look with the idea of what you want, and when you find someone, see whether
he can deliver the goods
This is where I have problem. You have no idea of what spirituality is about if you talk in terms of goods delivered etc. It is more about getting answers and getting free from chains of bondage... and much more..
I find it ridiculous that people believe in people who don't practice what they preach. Those involved in such activities must refrain from over-indulgence in material possessions like building luxurious ashramas etc etc...
Yes thats what i have commented in the begining because of few organisations, false guru, you cannot claim every organisation to be like that. And there is no wrong in depending upon Guru(him).
ReplyDeleteAnd When we come to a spirtual master, we dont come to know. we come to feel. God cannot be known, He can be experienced. The real guru gives you the right method, and guide you to the right way. If we have inner need, or craving for spirtuality , this cravingness will only help us to make the right choice.To find which is right 1. Join the mission 2. Practice the method. 3.then after practicing the method (meditation), you will certainely know the role of guru in your life.
"This is where I have problem. You have no idea of what spirituality is about if you talk in terms of goods delivered etc. It is more about getting answers and getting free from chains of bondage... and much more.."
Here what i mean to say is,"Look for him in whom you can have faith right from the moment, and if he destroys that faith , get out of that place." Its like climbing up a staircase, one step after the other.
Durlabham trayam eva etad devaanugrahahetukam
ReplyDeletemanushyatvam mumukshutvam mahaapurushasamsrayah
“There are three things which are very rare indeed and are received only with the grace of God.
They are a human birth, the longing for liberation
and to come to the holy feet of a perfect saint.”
I believe in Guru. That is precisely why I've taken up the task to warn against pseudo ones. And most of the modern day swamis are not being true to what is prescribed in standard texts. A Guru must himself be free of all attachments and must not indulge in accumulation of riches and bogus followers. A Guru who right away wishes to earn material benefit is a misnomer. Most of those whom I see live a life far from austerity. Hence those who earn millions through charity of followers and use it for the self-gratifying purposes should be discarded.
ReplyDeleteLook for him in whom you can have faith right from the moment, and if he destroys that faith , get out of that place.
You're too naive to believe that things work out that way. Once a person believes he will live in a state of denial even if evidence to the contrary is shown. Despite the so-called exposes, have the followers of these Gurus discarded them? No, they'll say that its a plot and would rather remain in such state.
If we have inner need, or craving for spirtuality , this cravingness will only help us to make the right choice.
Yes that happens. But how many realize that? Most lack the strength to shake up their firmly rooted beliefs. "Occasionally men stumble over the truth, but hastily pick themselves up and hurry on as if nothing had happened."
The existence of counterfeit proves the existence of the original! I perfectly agree with the saying. But what is problematic is your definition of 'saint'!
ReplyDeleteIn retrospect have men indeed questioned their path before putting in their faith? Once faith begins to rule, reason fails men. After having started with prejudiced mind, I don't expect followers of these sects to change their mind..Even if heaps of evidence are produced, they'll refuse to see it. I've seen such people all my life..
All I say is Let us Alone!! Don't bore us with your pseudo gyan !
Faith must be used to do good, not to do bad. belief in the right person, following the right ideal, faith in the right ideal is required.
ReplyDeleteTo you it may be pseudo..but to others it may be worthful. See you cannot claim every practice and organisation as false.
A true Guru do not come to rule, but only to serve, dedicating their lives to spiritual service. Truly speaking, the external master or guru can be described as the reflection of our own inner teacher. spiritual attainment can be achieved in the course of ordinary human life, provided one is fortunate to find and follow a capable living master or guru.
ReplyDeleteFaith must be used to do good, not to do bad. belief in the right person, following the right ideal, faith in the right ideal is required.
ReplyDeletePrecisely, and how do you find right guru. He must have some qualifications, right?
.but to others it may be worthful
Germans found Hitler worthful. So did Italy find Mussolini. Today you may say that he did evil things. Back then, they had solid backing of their own people... Tomorrow such pseudo saints will be exposed, and then you might not say this...!
Most of your ideas are direct lift from Hinduism, whether you realize it or not. These people teach these in a twisted manner. Read some standard books (and not their books) and observe impartially...From your comments I can figure out that you've never ventured into "outer" world besides your's.
The most basic thing that I wish to point out that such followers are in no way different from ordinary men in terms of their passions, greed, envy...They are in fact more perverted in their thinking and look upon other's views with superior smile.. They look upon themselves as "out of earth" beings.. I detest this feeling. As long as they keep their gyan with themselves without bothering us, I'm ok..
No offense! But from my personal experience (which I assure you is quite wide) these people have an almost Church like missionary zeal to bother others.. Usually they succeed in this...Only once in a while they meet a buttonhole bore like me they keep to themselves..
How do you find right guru?
ReplyDeleteAs i said at the begning, When you look, look with the idea of what you want, and when you find someone, you yourself will know. First practice then only comment. there is no need of someone convincing you. And i agree its difficult to found right guru.
I am afraid why you are distinguishing between people(followers). "They look upon themselves as "out of earth" beings..". here also its your own assumption that you think that way. Infact this statement is more suiting you this time. as your comment "Read some standard books (and not their books) and observe impartially...From your comments I can figure out that you've never ventured into "outer" world besides your's".
I would say, you need not to judge anyone. I do agree that Few organisations, selfish gurus are there.But it doesnt mean that there is no spirtual organisation exists.
Like you cant say every muslim a terrorist (just like in the movie My name is khan"), like wise you cant say, Every guru a selfish person giving pseudo gyan and every follower is not a foolish person.
When you look, look with the idea of what you want, and when you find someone, you yourself will know.
ReplyDeleteLike all those people who were fooled by the swamis last week :-)
First practice then only comment.
I do practice...I comment because I see serious faults..I retain the right to criticize...You are also free to criticize based on valid reasons...
Infact this statement is more suiting you this time. as your comment
Probable...I don't claim to be all-knowing.. But unfortunately I've read wider range of books including atheistic books, Christians, Islam, Buddhism....
Certainly better than reading only books pertaining to one single ideology..
you need not to judge anyone.
It is difficult to be moralistically judgmental. I admit..But when I see some nuisance do you think I must stop criticizing in order to be politically correct? I won't be politically correct...Sorry...
Every guru a selfish person giving pseudo gyan and every follower is not a foolish person
Please...Read carefully. I myself said that I believe in Guru.. What I'm against is some selective people who misuse the high name..
there is no need of someone convincing you
Indeed, then this whole exercise is unnecessary. We reason out to each other mostly..If you're not interested in doing this, then this itself shows that you're not open to change..
As I said Existence of fake proves that original exists...Why don't you think that yours belongs to that sect !?
No offence again! But you remind me of this. Telugu proverb..‘Gummadikaya donga evarante bujaalu tadumukunnadata’
"Probable...I don't claim to be all-knowing.. But unfortunately I've read wider range of books including atheistic books, Christians, Islam, Buddhism...."
ReplyDeleteI agree you have enough knowledge of books. But One should be more likely to have wisdom.
Telugu proverb , "gudi mingina vaniki, gudilo lingamu entha..".
Sathiya:
ReplyDeletePlease go ahead and imagine whatever entertains you... You don't seem to get any of my points right..
Thank you..
Tha same lines go to you from my side as well. Every coin has two sides. Because your points are not right infact ;)
ReplyDeleteBecause your points are not right infact ;)
ReplyDeleteThats a far-fetched idea.. You don't understand simple rules of logic.. You stay adamant within your little world.. Infact you're able to be so adamant precisely because of your limited perspective..
You judge my idea from your books which I reject...Does it make any sense to view the world with this deeply coloured perspective..? You ought to comment from third-party perspective! Instead you stoop to crass criticism without any proof..
You apply clinches without adequate understanding of the context.. That you have the audacity to claim my idea wrong without bothering to provide any reasonable argument shows it all..
I welcome criticism..But you've to do much better to attract my attention next time.. As I wrote in "Age of quick-fix" I see why so many people fall prey to such tactics.. And it confirms to me beyond doubt that such people are beyond all repair..
No offence! You have too limited knowledge to argue about this! Little reading (wider! mind you) would help..Just because you dive deep into sand, world does change...Nor does it change the fact that people like you who believe without reasoning are the root cause of problems around us..
Unless and until you read some other articles, you needn't expect any response from me..Despite the fact that not even once I said anything specific about any organization you keep on arguing!
ReplyDeleteUnless you adopt a wider approach and stop boring with narrow vision of your organization, I feel no compunction in ignoring these comments..
End of discussion:
You can freely write your "gyan" in your blog...Don't bore me again with these type of comments..!
Your comments shows that how much "superior" you feel about yourself. you just say that, " I welcome criticism.." but you criticise everyone. I dont need to criticize or convince anyone. Wisdom is much important than bookish knowledge. If your arguments, blogs are only for bookish knowledgable people then i need not to comment anymore.
ReplyDeleteHo Ho.. Lot of hot comments going on here...
ReplyDeleteMay I have the permission to say a few words here... ?
Ok.. I agree that followers tend to get the prejudice (Followers here include followers of religions as well). Prejudice is perhaps because of the scriptures one religion is having or because of the experiences one gets under the guidance of a Guru. Prejudice is always against progress. And, every individual should try to get rid of it.
"fire of faith should never lack the air of logic" - I beg to differ. Faith and Love are never based upon logic. It is based upon the experiences and the feelings. Ask a couple why they love each other, they will most probably say that because I feel the warmth or some spl thing with him/her. So, It is not logic but experience...
As you said, the battle of perceptions can never be won...
"Kuch tho log Kahenge, Logon ka kaam hai Kehna.. Choodo bekaar ki baaton me kahin beet na jaaye rainaaa...."
The important thing is that the self should feel the satisfaction.
If we stop eating rice, because it contains a few stones, we can never have a healthy life. Similarly, to abandon the thought of having or believing a Guru, just because there are some fake Gurus is not a good idea...
Agreed, that no guru is better than having false guru...If you really believe in the concept of having a spiritual Guru and are afraid of the Fakeness in this sphere, which one can see a lot in media these days, I believe that a sincere prayer to God to give guidance will definitely work, to find a perfect guru...
“For those who believe, no proof is necessary. For those who don't believe, no proof is possible.” :-)
ReplyDeleteBtw, ur blog got so many comments for the first time, i guess! Congrats..
Sathiya:
ReplyDeleteWisdom is much important than bookish knowledge
And where does this wisdom come from? Man has only 3 inputs.. Books, people and experience.. With respect to you all the 3 are limited to one specific sphere.. Wisdom comes from thinking independently....not thinking in terms of what has been taught to you..
I dont need to criticize or convince anyone.
Come on! You say this after so many comments..! Why were you commenting then? For fun? Sorry, I don't argue just for the heck of it..
If your arguments, blogs are only for bookish knowledgable people then i need not to comment anymore.
I believe that my blog is for mature people who can take criticism and rise above spoon-feeded knowledge.. If you don't qualify for above, relief is just a click away...! Thank you!
One thing I can't understand is that I was targeting some pseudo-gurus! Why do you need to respond at all, if you believe your's is not so..!
I don't feel superior..! I simply feel different.. I'm open to change! I am capable of discarding my beliefs and values once I feel that they are not right...Your arguments lack reason to convince me in this regard....If you can't convince me, then don't divert the issue.
On the final note, I'll ask you just one question "Will you change your path if its proved beyond doubt that it is false?"...I would prefer only a yes/no..
Thank you!
Sowjee:
ReplyDelete"Humanity is an ocean; if a few drops of the ocean are dirty, the ocean does not become dirty." Mahatma Gandhi
I've not denied the possibility of true Guru. I'm all for it. Infact I firmly believe that even in this present world there are some people who're enlightened souls from whom I must take my lessons.. But I'll make my choice by thinking and not blindly like others..
“For those who believe, no proof is necessary. For those who don't believe, no proof is possible.” :-)
Yes, this is quite true, but what essentially differentiates humans from animals is this amicable way of resolving differences through discussion and not brute violence.. Imagine if what you say is 100% true, all we can have in human history is wars and battles.. We must resolve through reasoning however imperfect..
Btw, ur blog got so many comments for the first time, i guess! Congrats..
IN retrospect, I'm sorry that I wrote it.. I forgot the the wisdom of my own post "World as it goes" when I tried to do the impossible...Reason out with people...!!!
I forgot that people would never change their beliefs because they're usually incapable of it..
This is my Aag I think..
Sowjee:
ReplyDeleteFaith and Love are never based upon logic.
What you say is recipe for disaster. Hitler, Stalin and many dictators said the similar things...They did all nonsense under the pretext of love (for motherland), and faith (in racial superiority of Germans)..
If faith and love are blind such things are going to repeat....
"It is difficult to get a man to understand something when his living depends upon his not understanding it."
People don't understand because they can;t afford to..
Thank you for writing...You've given me lots of ideas!
Madhav,
ReplyDeleteThe discussion is in similar lines with the case scenario you have presented in the post.
I strongly believe that people should not stop questioning, reasoning, answering and discussing just because the other person is not convinced. We do this exercise not make this world uniform in thought and opinion, but to broaden our knowledge and understand things which we missed to recognize in the course of reasoning. We simply are trying to make a picture of branches that we did not explore.
Coming to the topic,
What I personally feel is faith, love, pride and jealousy are all the walls of same room. What we consider as faith and love is seen as jealousy and prejudice by others. Gurus simply make our beliefs and perceptions strong and unbreakable. Some even try to extract material gains from it.
Just imagine if a guru proposes and teaches something thing that you are squarely opposing.
ReplyDeleteThose who believe in the proposal stick to him and develop strong attachment with guru and those who oppose simply stay away or criticize.
Gurus gather large followings most of the time because they simply evoke thoughts and beliefs in others and usually say that what they believe is right. Gurus never say any thing that you cannot hardly think. They remove your ambiguity and we simply lose out logic because we consider him as guru. In this course the guru might even say others are wrong. Thus forms a strong bond between guru and his disciples.
I was once such a disciple of one guru for a short time before I realized I have many more things to understand and complete
The most absurd thing with most gurus is they are untouchable. They are untouchable to the questions of his disciples that oppose him strongly. Most of the time the disciple simply has to satisfy with the half-baked explanations of guru. Others either think that the guru has answered perfectly or consider the inquisitor as traitor,illogical or may be dumbass.
ReplyDeleteMadhav,
ReplyDeleteFaith and Love are never based upon logic but on experience.... bro, you forgot to take note on "experience". I did not say that Faith and love should b blind.. experience is a great teacher itself...
Madhav,
ReplyDelete"Wisdom comes from thinking independently....not thinking in terms of what has been taught to you.."
Wisdom is actually--proper utilisation..it can be anything..but utilising time its important
I have not criticised nor i have tried to convince you. Even i am not saying that what you have written is in concern to me(blog). I would just say, I agree that there are still few people (sadhus, gurus) there selfish guru's exists as we are seeing news on daily basis. But its doesn't mean that Guru(method, mission) spirtual organisations (concept) is wrong. There are still some organisations which doesnt go for publicity and all. their only concern is with spirtuality. And another thing, just check out previous comments you yourself know who is criticising. Even i can quote your sayings..
Haha this blog is for the mature people?? Sorry to say, i feel its immature.
coming to your question
one question "Will you change your path if its proved beyond doubt that it is false?"...
Proved in the sense?? Yes if my innerself, faith is destroyed certainely i will change my path.
Yes..for me the destination is important.If the path is beautiful first confirm where it leads.But if the destination is beautiful dont bother how the path is..keep walking..
Anyway.. Its my last comment.
Sowjee,
ReplyDeleteyou forgot to take note on "experience".
Because I thought you understand my point. Those who are involved in such nefarious activities also had 'experience'. Ultimately experience is what you decide to do with happenings. Hence, there is nothing special about that..All humans have that..With lots of 'experience' people do nonsense. Experience is great teacher if you know how to use it! And that needs intellect..
Sathiya:
ReplyDeleteWisdom is actually--proper utilisation
And what explains decide what is 'proper'? What are the parameters! Blind faith?
But its doesn't mean that Guru(method, mission) spirtual organisations (concept) is wrong.
Where did I refute that? I AM infact saying that...Counterfeit proves that original exists..
you yourself know who is criticising.
Where did I say I'm not criticizing..? I'm criticizing!! Just because somebody gets hurt, I wouldn't refrain from telling what I consider truth.
Sorry to say, i feel its immature.
It could as well mean that you are unable to get my level of point.. I've not criticized any particular person or organization..I'm criticizing only a "mentality". Hope you understand the difference..
I said I'm open to change. I said that few real people exist...and yet you persist with this pointless agenda..Who is immature? While you argue in vague terms, I'm providing proof and giving specific reasons...
Even i can quote your sayings..
Go ahead...I'm waiting..
Yes if my innerself, faith is destroyed certainely i will change my path.
Thanks! Then we have hopes.. But going by your relentless attacks I'm not sure...! But let us hope!
But if the destination is beautiful dont bother how the path is..
Yes, thats what the inhuman leaders have said and succeeded in causing irreparable damage to humanity. Ends justifies means...This is closer to Jihad....
Anyway.. Its my last comment.
Thank God for small mercies.....
Sravan:
ReplyDeleteYour observation that this discussion in Comment's section is similar to what I'm envisaged in the post itself is bang on! Thanks!
Their presence is blessings in disguise to me.. There have confirmed what I merely was deeply skeptical on.. I had nagging doubts if my criticism is harsh though truthful in my opinion. Their Comments have justified my stand...
How much ever our perceptions may differ, we all agree that there are Real Gurus in this modern world too...
ReplyDeleteDont loose the hope.. I wish you good luck for your quest of Truth!
Sravan:
ReplyDeleteYou've understood my point.. I consider my post a success for the sheer reason that atleast one could get it in the intended meaning.. I was never trying to criticize any particular man/organization. I'm criticizing the mentality which makes such things successful.
The most absurd thing with most gurus is they are untouchable.
Yes, and you can see for yourself how much panic it creates in those followers when we begin to question them..
Others either think that the guru has answered perfectly or consider the inquisitor as traitor,illogical or may be dumbass.
Precisely my point..Well said..The point is all about faith! Once you really have faith you can't question with honestly. When your opinion is deeply skewed you begin to imagine things which are doubtful.. Have the followers of the exposed gurus deserted them? No.. Its simply not possible.. They're conditioned in such a way that mere questioning the system translates to 'traitor'.
"It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. Insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories, instead of theories to suit facts." - Sherlock Holmes
All:
ReplyDeleteContrary to what you think, I'm merely expressing my doubts on a system and I'm skeptical on this.
I find it amusing that with some people with good conversation skills manage to fool around people.
Most of today's youth lack knowledge of spirituality compared to previous generation. Hence they find life meaningless. But the tragedy is that the vacuum is being filled by people who're not adequately qualified.
Spirituality has become commercial. One 'sells' hope and 'association of fellow-followers' and these are material gains..
Nowhere have I targeted any particular organization! But questioning is so foreign to many followers that they press panic button the moment one begins to question..
Self-realization begins with inquiry...Questions such as why am I born? Why am I placed in such position? What can do to relieve myself of the problems..?
Ignorance is not bliss.. It is slavery.. Get out of your minds that without knowledge realization is possible.. All major scriptures strongly deny that..
Yet, I don't think its possible for all...Only few can really get there....The "Will" of person is powerful and dominates intellect.. I shall brag about it next blog..
Well i thought not to comment more on this..But here i need to say something more.
ReplyDeleteWell i agree with you madhav, that today , unfortunately the selection of the proper guide, guru is much difficult.generally people select any one for the purpose without any regard to his capabilities or worth. A petty miracle or a few mystical words into the ear of the disciple is enough to attract hundreds of masses(ignorant people).Even some declare that none but one belonging to the privileged class has the right of being a guru,.Some of them claim to be world teachers (Jagat Gurus).And For some gurus , being "guru" is a very profitable job, which can secure enormous income which they cannot otherwise earn.Besides all these they command highest respect and personal services too from their disciples. I really feel pitty to find such professional imposters, who are a shame to the nation and the religion, roaming about with complete impunity to cheat and defraud the ignorant people, in order to serve their own selfish ends.
A real teacher is the one who can prescribe us do's and don't, unlike the soundeness of religious bookish knowledge. What we seek from a guru is the true impulse to effect the awakening of the soul and his direct support in the course of our further march on the path of realisation.
While judging a man for our spirtual guide we must take in to account not his learning or miracles but his practical achievements in the field of realisation. A man who is himself free can free you from the eternal bondages.
I do not agree with your statement "that without knowledge realization is possible.." Knowledge is only an achievement of brain whereas realisation is the awakening of soul and hence far beyond its scope. I must say, Being knowledgable, through books, people can talk and make advance arguments for and against easily:)
No offence..Keep writing.
Sathiya:
ReplyDeleteYou're mistaken in believing that by knowledge I mean information in encyclopedias. No, I mean that specific knowledge which is required for understanding human nature and how to overcome our bondage etc. This is sometimes also called philosophy...
This understanding is referred to as "King of all Knowledges" in Gita.. I mean this knowledge when I was speaking about it.. It is important to know how are the kind of problems we face in order to overcome it..
Imagine saying that doctor needs no knowledge to treat patients..Just because he has "faith", do you believe him.. Else, does your "faith" compensate for his gross inadequacy. Within marginal limits "faith" may work out...But saying that its ok for doctor to go ahead despite lack of knowledge is suicidal..
It is ofcourse ok if doctor doesn't know much about other activities.. But he has to know about his professional thoroughly. Just like this, in spiritual sphere too you need 'expert' to deal with your problems...
Seen thus knowledge is not an achievement of just brain, it is a breaking the bondage of mind.. Its is de-conditioning yourself from the nonsense that you've absorbed from childhood.. It is understand the true nature of the world within and without..
Your conditioning from childhood makes you wrongly underestimate the power of knowledge..(in the specific sense I explained earlier)...
You do not understand what you're saying... You've resolved to support what you consider to be a part of your identity and thus are unable to get what I intend to because it basically threatens your identity which you hold so dear..